A discussion in the SOSEN forums (Good Policing)

As a lead-in to this information many people wonder what goes on within the secure forms of SOSEN, the victims advocates and vigilantes would like to believe that our forms give rise to more crimes or give offenders ways to get away with their crimes. Nothing could be further from the truth. SOSEN is the Sex Offender Solutions and Educational Network. Our members are looking for and sharing information pertaining to the sex offender registry and seeking advice from other members on how to reintegrate into society and be productive members of it, as well as attempting to stay informed on the ever-changing legal arena.

But the discussions within the forums are not limited to just information about registered citizens below is a atypical discussion that was started in the forums under good policing.

Member 1

As a truck driver, I interact with tens of thousands of vehicles daily. Some drivers are excellent. Many are plain awful. My truck is outfitted with traffic speed matching technology. It includes a radar connected to the truck’s speed sensor which automatically matches my truck’s speed to the vehicle ahead and it maintains the truck at the proper following distance as well as applying brakes to avoid collisions. I can override it using my foot pedals. It also has a digital readout that tells me the speed of the vehicle in front of me. Yesterday, a motorcycle passed me and cut into my lane. I clocked him at 138mph and called the Ohio Highway Patrol. The officer who went to investigate was kind enough to call me back after a failed attempt to catch him and he thanked me for the tipoff. He then made a profound statement. He told me that it was difficult to catch traffic offenders in a marked patrol car because people would adjust their driving style to be compliant when they saw the patrol car. It got me thinking!!

Back in the late 1990s, the phomomenon of the internet became available to absolutely anyone who had the money for a computer and the service. All of the information in the world at the dot-commer’s fingertips!! “Chat” rooms were born as was social networking. The world became both a little smaller….and a lot bigger as we all began to meet people just as individually unique as we thought we were. For instance, I learned that there were people all over the world who loved opera and there were people all over the world who loved model building. Indeed, I was no longer weird, I was normal…and I had others like me to prove it!!

At that time, the great “cyber predator” scare was born. Pedophiles began trolling the chat rooms of all of our children. It was indeed a SCARY time for all dot-commers. I have a close friend who was an elementary school principal. Her son was a dot-commer and she watched over him like a hawk when he was online. I asked her just how bad it actually was and she said, “Watch this!!” She posted “I AM A TWELVE YEAR OLD BOY. I AM INTERESTED IN MARIO BROS.”  Something to that effect. Instantly, someone replied, “WHAT IS YOUR NAME? CAN YOU POST A PICTURE OF YOURSELF?” She said, “Just wait.” The person on the other end posted, “WHERE DO YOU LIVE? CAN WE MEET? I’M STILL WAITING FOR A PICTURE. I’D LIKE TO MEET YOU AND TALK MARIO BROS.” She said that it COULD be another teen…but she pointed out that as quickly as the conversation progressed from introduction to pictures to meeting, it was not likely.

This brings into play the question. What IS good policing? Cyber cops set up stings quite regularly and they are quite effective. I have always been a proponent of keeping children safe. The question for me is this: Is good policing a product of catching the bad guys or is it a product of having less crime due to a stronger presence? I, for one, would rather have a stronger police presence that makes burglars think twice before staging break-ins in my neighborhood than having burglars caught only after they’ve been in my home and taken my television.

So what are some thoughts on this. I gurantee all of us in this forum would say “Had I known how this would all turn out……” What IS good policing?? What is better, in your opinion, a jail filled to capacity or a jail sparsely populated because crime was deterred by stronger vigilance? I’m curious what some thoughts are here.

Member 2

I think you have to define what “policing” is before you can define what makes it “good”. Prison is a part of punishment, and punishment is not a job of the police. Generally, the job of police is to maintain law and order.

How law and order is maintained by the police is a question for the ages.

Member 3

A little side note: if soliciting children online is such a big problem (though I for one doubt it is as widespread as claimed), wouldn’t it be easier to keep children off the internet? We can restrict access to a lot of places where children go – bars for example. Why should the net be any different? Just because it requires a little more parenting?

The overlooked elephant in the room is parents clamoring for the government to do their job of protecting their own kids. Sorry, but I think child safety is a parental issue, not a state one. Considering how the state runs everything else, why would anyone in their right mind trust their kids to the government?

For crying out loud, if laws prevented crime, then how is it there’s still crime?

Member 4

Right you are, ——-. But if you look back on history, you can see that parental authority and ability have steadily eroded since the end of World War II, the start of the Baby Boom, and Dr. Spock’s famous book on child rearing. Parents have steadily abrogated responsibility for the proper education of their children. First it was mandatory public education; Dr. Spock recommended a “hands-off” approach; then TV became a de facto baby sitter. Zoom to the free-love 60’s where children were raised by hippies who wanted “freedom” for their kids; child rearing was a “drag.” Those kids grew up to hate their parent’s generation; but then Their kids were now being baby-sat by video games and the Internet. And now parents would rather give up all responsibility for the education and protection of their children to the Government. What kind of kids will those turn out to be?  Child safety, then, is DEFINITELY a parental responsibility … but what we need is more Parental Education… preferably one without modern political ideology pumped in.  What they call “Free Range Parenting” today was simply normal, average parenting in the 40’s and 50’s. Compare “Helicopter Parenting” where the child’s every move is controlled or overseen by a parent. Failing to allow kids to get dirty, to play outside, and so on, has exacerbated childhood allergies.

Member 5

It’s easy to come up with solutions.

It’s much harder to come up with solutions that make a (positive) difference.

The internet is here to stay, and there’s literally no way to make sure no children are on it, short of mandatory biometric scans for every occasion of accessing the internet.

I grew up without TV, and limited access to the internet. My parents did everything they could think of to prevent us from all harm and danger, but yet here I am (non-internet charge). Clearly that kind of parental responsibility didn’t help. For what it’s worth, I think if I’d gone to a government school, I’d not be a convicted criminal today (though who knows.. I might have been a parent before 20 instead).

What children need in a dangerous world is an emotionally safe and nurturing space, where they can experiment, take risks, and slowly grow outwards on their own.

The problem is that the world has changed so fast that no one has figured out how to live in it. The Greatest Generation was deeply flawed, but they grew up with a strong sense of community. They decided to make life easier for their children, the Baby Boomers, who grew up in suburbs, mildly isolated from the greater world, but still with one parent home most of the time. Then came my generation, the Millennials. Our parents wanted to absolutely spoil us and turn each and every one of us into superstars, because even their childhood was too hard, but they now had options no one had ever seen before. And now both parents work out of the house most of the time, with very limited community ties. The village that once raised a child has evaporated.

The poor Gen Z is inheriting generation upon generation of not being able to keep up with the changing times. They’re going to have an awful hard time learning to run the world when their time comes. But don’t fault them for what no one gave them the chance to learn. I’m not even sure how much we can fault their parents.

The best thing a parent can do is 1) make sure they are emotionally healthy (before having children), and 2) make sure their priorities aren’t out of balance (overprotective ness, excessive materialism, etc.). That would curb a lot of crime, though certainly not all (nothing can curb all crime, short of total annihilation).

As far as actual policing goes, I’m certainly one of those that, if I’d known how seriously the state took a 16 year old fooling around, I’d probably have kept myself a bit more in check. I remember finding out for the first time (years before I was charged), that I could spend years in prison, etc., and being completely devastated. I had never imagined it was that serious. That said, it’s really hard for me to imagine any kind of government action that would have protected me / her. Some would try to ban homeschooling, or label every parent that keeps their child at home neglectful, but I know plenty of counter examples, and it opens the door for too much abuse of power.

Awareness would be one thing, although many of us, if we’d known that “someone” was charged for “something”, we would say, “yeah, but that won’t be me,” and not take the hint. And how do you warn a 16 year old homeschooled kid? His mom won’t even let mentions of sexuality into the house!

Realistically the state does need to have and enforce laws, and some crime will go un-caught / un-punished. It’s a hard sell, but we have to accept that some crimes (even dreadful crimes) will go unpunished, as long as any personal freedom exists, and without any personal freedom, we lose our human soul.

I have no general problem with the laws as they stand (what is or isn’t a crime), nor even with standard policing methods (even though there is more concern for the “state” than for the victim.. if anyone thinks the prosecutor is on the side of the victim they are delusional — but no perfect system exists). The dangerous element comes from attitudes of vigilanteism, both within and without the government, that push sentencing (and often charging) beyond what would be reasonable according to data.

But we have to accept… there are dangerous people out there, and they are seriously hurting people (I’ve watched my friends cry as they’ve told their stories..). It is just to have enforcement, and unjust to ignore crime. America is one of the most paranoid and self-centered cultures in the world, and unfortunately we, who look suspiciously like someone who reminds someone of a deep pain in their life, or in the life of a friend, get the short end of the stick. Even if, we were in reality the safest people in the world, and are labeled completely unfairly.

We may be treated completely unfairly, but if our problem with society is that it’s paranoid and self-centered, then it wouldn’t do well for us to try to change that society by also being paranoid and self-centered.

A final note here, the people in this discussion are registrants who are seeking a better path for themselves and their communities. People make mistakes, most people learn from them and try to make themselves into better people and to contribute to the communities that they live it. When they are deny that ability, To participate in a community and are ostracized and shamed by that community because of fear and hatred. It diminishes the community by allowing that fear to fester and removes a person from the equation that could be a benefit to the community. As for a person that is been ostracized be they a registrant or a school student they will feel hatred and resentment towards those who deny him or her the ability to participate and that by itself can lead to new crimes. So to be blunt when looking at the whole picture, new crimes very well may be caused by the community, the bullies, the victims advocates and the vigilantes.

6 comments for “A discussion in the SOSEN forums (Good Policing)

  1. Tim
    September 8, 2018 at 12:59 am

    @Mr. Wolf,
    Letting children access the internet has it’s problems, but essentially it’s is best to keep kids out of the street.
    People pretend a lot online. They lie more. They express more extreme communication. It’s not just social rather anti-social too!

    • Will Bassler
      September 8, 2018 at 5:49 pm

      And what is so wrong with letting children play in the streets. I grew up in the 1950s and 60s graduated from high school in 65 the children were the thing that tied neighborhoods together not the older people. the kids were also the first line of defense against problems in the neighborhood. if a neighbor seem to be having problems or were sick the children would tell their parents and the parents would come to the neighbors aid. the children also look out for one another and assumed if there was a stranger in the neighborhood that didn’t look like they belonged they made sure their parents knew about it. today’s kids would ignore it and go about playing their video games on their cell phones it may take a village to raise a child but it takes a child to care for the village. when I was in high school it was not uncommon to see guns in gun racks of the pickup trucks in the school parking lot and yet there was no school shootings. maybe the Japanese have education of Young children nailed. the first two years that a child is in school in Japan they don’t learn reading writing and arithmetic they learn to be courteous, thoughtful and kind. they also learned that they have to work together to get anything done, that’s why there are no janitors in any Japanese schools it is the children’s responsibility to keep the school cleaned and neat and they have to all work together to do that. Perhaps it is time to stop mollycoddling the US children as well as stop being so competitive in everything and teach them to be carrying adults and accept responsibility for their actions.

      found this video — https://youtu.be/dM6qL9WkDvU — this is a matter of how somebody was brought up this is a matter of how they see themselves in the world. the majority of the young people today think more about themselves than they do the world around them. you think I’m wrong watch the video and ask yourself if this was a stranger would you attempt to help him or walk over him like a piece of trash

      I’m from the old generation if this would’ve happened when I was that young there would’ve been 10 people trying to help this guy and within the first few minutes somebody would’ve went off to find a phone or a police officer or somebody that was in charge of the event to get somebody there to help him

      one last thing that I have to put in this morning at 2:30 AM I dropped my roommate off at the train station in Lincoln there were a few people in the area and a few cars driving by and they’re right in front of the train station lay a person passed out he had obviously been there for a while, my immediate response was to go to him and try and see if he was hurt or injured, he was totally incoherent. I had my roommate go into the station and have them call the paramedics and stayed with him until they arrive I’m quite sure that other people saw him laying there and for whatever reason made no attempt to help him. God I hope I’m not the last of a dying breed.

  2. Timothy
    September 12, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    @Will, We played in the streets too, but when care came we got out of the way. With cell phones and texting while driving the people aint looking. Internet access is more dangerous than the street and youngsters are infatuated. How needy children get attention is up to parents. Like you say neglect is a large issue. T.V. & game consoles are entertainment, which America has a huge problem with.

  3. Scott
    September 14, 2018 at 9:04 am

    this day and age single or both parents are basically forced to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. Quality time has gone out the window and now most parents rely on a relative or a day care center to raise their kids. Parents truly don’t know what their children go through on a day to day basis. Sure, you could tell the sitter or tell the relative but you know it wouldn’t sound nearly the same as coming from the child itself to tell the parent.

    The ones that get me are the ones that have the audacity to tell parents how to raise their children and they themselves haven’t a child to speak about themselves. Parents this day and age fell in the envy part of life following their friends pregnancy just because one friend does it they have to do it (get pregnant) and they totally forget and are clueless to the BIG responsibility they have before them once the child is born.

    I frankly blame the education system and the promoting of sex ed in schools and in media at such an early age. I guess i really don’t know myself if elementary is too young or if kids are mature enough to really know whats going on….some education can be considered poison if the individual doesn’t understand or uncomfortable.

    It takes a BIG village to raise a child however the village has turned a blind eye to responsibility and would rather coddle their kids into lacking discipline and irresponsibility upon themselves. Kids only know what they are taught.

    • Timothy DA Lawver
      September 18, 2018 at 11:47 am

      Yes both parents need to work to make ends meet but only because of our leadership and their choices in law. NAFTA is a prime example. IMHO those who signed that regime into law should be punished for undermining American interests.
      I made the decision to be a stay at home dad for the most part. Yes the finances get tough but only because of waste. America is a throw away society. Having one parent always available to our children promotes emotional stability in children. I’m glad I’m not a young person starting out in America today, according to national debt clock every kid born owes 70K the day they’re born.

  4. Timothy DA Lawver
    September 18, 2018 at 11:22 am

    @Will,
    I just read your comments over at THEJOLT on StacyAbrams.
    Will I agree THE DON is a capitalist pig. But he ain’t no rightwinger like the VP MIKE PENCE! This guy is why the left will NOT impeach TRUMP. I also know TRUMP2.0 is coming.

    I believe it upmostly important to acknowledge where the first mega-database infrastructure was built… in UTAH! (See eff.org)
    UTAH is of course home to the Mormon church. SEX is only for marriage. Is that what you believe? Most of the religious right upholds that concept as a societal normal. Do you also believe that? Homosexual activity is\was outlawed by the religious right, even though some are gay themselves but are still closeted. Furthermore, PROJECT ANGEL WATCH is headquartered in the same place. THIS IS NO FU#$ING COINCIDENCE!

    SOR is unamerican, and ineffective for sure, but it is popular. We both know both Ds&Rs engage in smear by sexual innuendo. It goes on in every big election here in Wisconsin. Rpacs are currently smearing D governor candidate T Evers. Brett Kavanaugh is under attack of credibility by a former high school peer, who claims he attacked her 35 years ago. The writing is on the wall, the databases will be used to keep the two most corrupted parties in power, despite incredibly poor outcomes from regulatory regimes like ACA, NAFTA, SORNA, IML passed into law by both groups.

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